Herding cats: dealing with the mavericks and high performers

Walter Rogers joins Paget Alves and host Kevin Price on The Price of Business to discuss herding cats: dealing with the mavericks and high performers.

Kevin Price: Welcome back to the Price of Business. I am your host Kevin Price, Talkin about you and your business. I will tell yah that a big part of our business is the way we communicate, the way we conduct our business, the way we’re organized and really the way we motivate one another and the way we improve out work environments and our culture. One of the best people, that I know, to talk about that subject is our contributor Walter Rogers. He is with Baker Communications. Good to see you my friend.

Walter Rogers: Hey, thanks for having me back Kevin.

Kevin Price: Good to have you back; you are a regular feature here. We look forward to you on every Wednesday. You brought an exceptionally great guest, as well, for us today. Why don’t you introduce him?

Walter Rogers: We are very excited to have the president of Sprints business market group, Paget Alves.

Kevin Price: Paget welcome to the program.

Paget Alves: Thanks very much Kevin, glad to be here.

Kevin Price: Glad to have you. Tell us, first of all, real quickly, give us the 411 about yourself. Just good to know you.

Paget Alves: Well I am long time Sprint Executive, I run a business markets group we’re north of ten billion dollars business unit that has responsibility for business and public sector markets for sprint, of course being the first 4G provider; we expect to be a big market share gainer this year so, this is an exciting time in our company.

Kevin Price: Well it certainly is and it’s exciting to spend some time with Walter, who frankly is, he and I got to visit before the show and he has some great insights and some great things to focus on, and I think a great place to start would be kind of a recap of last week program, which we kind of laid the foundation for the work we are doing today. Walter?

Walter Rogers: Yes, absolutely. So, last week Kevin, we spoke about the importance of coaching and what we say, in the day and in the moment. The analogy that we used was; it doesn’t really do much good to coach somebody weeks after an event has occurred. The best time to coach is right there when something happens and one of the things we like to do Kevin as you know is bring people on to the show organizations that exhibit a best practice in any of the areas that we talk about. Sprint has had a fantastic coaching program that they’ve been implementing called “PACE” and that is what Paget is going to share with us a little bit today.

Kevin Price: First of all, I would like to start off by describing; what does “PACE” stand for?

Paget Alves: “PACE” is actually a program that we set up to drive management training and “PACE” stands for Planning, Analyzing, Coaching and Evaluating. Some of the things that Walter just mentioned are principals that speak part of the “PACE” process. And, I would say, at a high level the most central part of it is called the grow model; the goal is to help our sales managers be better managers at the heart of it. We think that the success of our sales managers will determine the success of our sales organization. The grow model involves setting goals for the desired outcomes you intend to have, understanding realistically what your situation is, developing some options for how to deal with a situation and then putting together a plan to act against it.

Kevin Price: Very good. Why don’t you follow up with that, Walter?

Walter Rogers: Well, one of the key things that we have found is really lacking, in most organizations, when it comes to coaching is a repeatable, predictable coaching structure, a coaching framework; that is exactly what Paget is talking about here. You can’t just expect individuals to coach at their own leisure or in their own framework and have any type of organizational consistency. One of the things Sprint is clearly doing is showing some leadership and applying a consistent framework. But, how to really improve employee productivity, ultimately focus on the customer experience because, that’s what Sprint is all about.

Kevin Price: Let me ask you, first of all? When did you begin to implement this program?

Paget Alves: We began the program about a year and a half ago, the context was this, we as I mentioned before, and I think the key to the success of our sales organization is the sales manager. But there were two things happening that were contributing to that. First of all we want our organization to be a top performing sales organization that is critical, our industry is very competitive. The second thing is that we are in the process of transforming from a group that sells products, and you probably know the successful sales organizations are consultative and they sell solutions for customers, they up customers drive revenue and they address and improve productivity, they don’t just sell’em boxes. So, that is very important in our industry, the technology is evolving and as I have mentioned before, we have the first 4G network, we’ve embarked upon building a portfolio; we have what we call machine to machine devices so that enables communications between two devices, not just communication, between say, handsets. We have built that into portfolio solutions for customer problems, based on industries.

Kevin Price: Give us an example of what you mean by devices.

Paget Alves: An example would be; a lottery terminal. Most of us in many states especially in Texas, big lottery. The Texas lottery has lottery terminals that you will find in every 711 and lots of other places, those lottery terminals are increasingly being connected by wireless networks. We actually supply one of the largest providers of that company called GTECH. So that is an example of a chip that is essentially a chip, inside of the lottery terminal that can communicate wirelessly back to the host or the server.

Kevin Price: Interesting. Very good. So, going on with that. What were the compelling factors that made you realize that you needed to take this kind of approach. In more of a coaching experience versus, frankly, what is considered a more traditional managerial approach?

Paget Alves: I think we have tried a number of things. We have always believed that the heart of our organization has to be very sales driven. We set some priorities for, what I would call, “The success of Sprint.” two or two in a half years ago one of those was called “Customer Experience”, we thought at the heart of the customer experience; how is the sales team supporting you, how is the care team supporting you and ultimately that will determine, particularly for the business market place, how you use Sprint. So that was one and the second is; the notion that as more complexity comes into our industry, our customers need us to be more consultative, we are going to have to drive change throughout our organization. Those sales managers will be critical to helping their organization. All of our sales reps make the change from selling, what I may call, and commodity products to more complex solutions to the customers.

Kevin Price: Very, very good.

Walter Rogers: And Paget, are you facing many obstacles right now in the implementation of this program? Or what are some of the successes you have seen and maybe some of the things you might have done differently?

Paget Alves: Well I think the first obstacle is, obviously, folks who don’t like change. So, I think you need to determine very quickly who is in and who is out. You need folks who are willing to say I am in and I am ready to go through the change. As you know, how organizations are all changing, the industry is changing, change is very fast and certainly in the technology industry. So I need folks who are adaptable and flexible and can learn. The second thing, and if I do something different, is be careful not to try and get too much done too fast. So we did move very, very quickly, almost two years ago now, and I found that the organization took more time to absorb the “PACE” training and to really effectively implement it. Managing the pace of change yourself, we all have high expectations, we all like to get more done than we probably can in a short period of time. Making sure that you set realistic goals for the time it will take for the organization to absorb and then expect to refine it over time, to continue to improve the process so that over the course of a few years you actually understand how to implement it very quickly and very efficiently.

Kevin Price: Well when you are talking about a business the size of sprint. It’s not like you are a speedboat you are more like a large jet and there is a ruttier involved. And really it takes a while before you really notice a change.

Paget Alves: That is very correct. In fact, one of the nice things that has happening to Sprint; we have made a lot of changes and we are working on improving our brand in the market place. We are working on improving customer experience and when you look around you will find that our customer experience is proved faster than any other company in our industry, quite a bit faster. You will also find that our network experience was doing the same thing and then we have been innovating and expanding our product portfolio; introducing new devices and so forth. That is a very different company than we were a year ago or two years ago and it has taken a while for the consuming public, business and consumers, to really recognize the change but, as they do we begin to outperform our competitors as we did in the last quarter.

Kevin Price: Alright, Paget Alves, he is our guest here today. He is with, of course, Sprint and, of course, our good friend Walter Rogers is here every week like clockwork; doing a great job with me, helping us really understand some of the profound important concepts when it comes to management and having the type of business you want; here on the Price of Business. We are going to continue that discussion when we come back right here on CNN650.

Kevin Price: Welcome back to the Price of Business, I am your host Kevin Price continuing my discussion with my good friend Walter Rogers. He is with Baker Communications, a regular contributor here on the Price of Business. And again Paget Alves, he is with the company Sprint, huge company, one of the most important companies in fact in the telecommunications industry, and really talking about what they are doing to make sure they remain leaders in the 21st century by talking about management from more of a coaching perspective rather than a bureaucratic perspective, which I am afraid is proactive in large companies all over America, all over the world today. So this is really refreshing. Walter, you and I were talking during the break about some of the challenges some of the businesses face. You brought up a great example of Mavericks; why don’t you talk a little bit about that and segue into that?

Walter Rogers: Boy mavericks, and every company has them, you love to have them and sometimes you hate to have them but, the key to difference here is how you perceive them and if you can really harness the power of a maverick they can become a substantial change agent for you and really help you drive any new initiatives inside of your company. On the other hand, if you don’t work with them correctly they can be your biggest attractor and really help you have things go sideways, which is obviously not ideal. We have Paget with us from Sprint and obviously Sprint is introducing some substantial change into their organization and moving from selling products to selling solutions. I bet yah Alves, you’ve probably never had to deal with any Mavericks in your career?

Kevin Price: We do have you, correct? I think you startled him with that question.

Paget Alves: Well the good news is, we have had quite a few Mavericks at Sprint. We started as a company that was challenging the status quo in our industry, a long time ago with fiber optic communication. We are doing it again with 4G as the first National carrier to introduce it so, we like to become, what I call “Mavericks” in terms of innovation and technology and we need mavericks in our sales organization that are capable of delivering the best performance possible. The most interesting thing that I have found, they generally are our best performers and as much as you would like your organization to follow the rules and follow the procedures and drive consistency; the Mavericks are going to do the exactly opposite. As Walter said, “That can be a great asset or it can be a great detractor and the key is making them an asset.”

Kevin Price: You know, I heard it said before the ones who ask for forgiveness are usually more professional or more successful rather than those who are always asking for permission. But there has to be a balance to that, true?

Paget Alves: That is exactly right. I will follow up on this notion of driving the “PACE” of change. There is a point where you can’t let it go too far so, obviously the team needs to be managed, your Mavericks need to be managed. But, what I tried to do was to use them and set an aggressive pace in the organization and that comes from really being the quarter horses getting out in front and everyone else is trying to keep up. Everyone is competitive, particularly sales people, and seeing someone who is succeeding is what everyone wants to do. So, having a Maverick who is setting an aggressive pace and really performing, helps a lot. The second thing is; you need to create constructive tension in the organization. We are a big company and if you don’t have constructive tension you can get to the point where you fall into a lull and the status quo remains the same, which is the last thing we want. We need to be in a position where the managers get a little agitated, the managers managers are getting agitated, the pear group is getting agitated a little bit. I find that the Mavericks deliver that constructive tension that can lead to real important changes.

Kevin Price: Very important.

Walter Rogers: In fact the Mavericks are typically very outspoken and they tend to march to their own drum. One of the things that we have found works really well, working with Mavericks, is if that sales manager , that individual that can really make change happen in a company has a particularly good relationship with the maverick and involves him or her in any change initiative that is strategic to the organization gives him some sort of leadership position. Not a leadership position as in title but a leadership position as a team lead and involves him in the execution of that strategy. It seems to follow that the rest of the team follows that Maverick maybe even more so than the sales manager because he is up here. So there is not as much management pressure upon them. I don’t know Paget, what is your experience?

Paget Alves: That is a great example, actually. Our experiences have been exactly that. In fact we are doing that now. We are working with Baker Communications on trying to bring pour performing teams back to the point to where they top performers. That kind of reverse is critical to all of us who want a successful sales team. What we are doing is taking some of the folks who I would say are Mavericks in our organization; they are agitating they are creating constructive tension as we put them in charge of this, what is initially a trial, what I am fairly sure will become a way to improve the performance and compliment the “PACE” training to improve the performance of our sales managers and that I have found in my career has worked successfully several times. It also has the effect of letting the Maverick giving them a broader perspective around the company and making them all the more effective over time.

Kevin Price: One of the things I learned early in my interviews with Walter Rogers; very early in this process is that if you don’t get the leadership involved and onboard it really become all academic.

Paget Alves: It really does because, the sales team is only going to respond to what the manager wants them to do, expects them to do and really leads them to do. Not so much manages, management is important, but you really need to lead people these days. Maverick can be your lightening rod for change because He can help validate what the organization wants to do, is actually on target, will help them increase the level of customer experience, ultimately increase their personal satisfaction in their job, their paycheck and all of those things are important to sales organizations. So, getting them on board early on in the cycle is absolutely critical, because if you don’t, what they can do is resist the whole process and start saying things like; Well, you know, I always sell products and selling products works just fine for me. I don’t know why I need to make a conversion to solutions and look I am still making great money, so I don’t buy into these strategies. So, getting them on board as early as possible as part of this incremental change is one of the most important things in these change initiatives.

Kevin Price: Let me ask you in that same vein Paget, do you actually identify those Mavericks and try to get them sold on something first before you implement it to the rest of the organization?

Paget Alves: Yes, absolutely. Because one thing.

Kevin Price: Make them more Prim-Madonna’s than they already are. You do what you have to do right?

Paget Alves: Interestingly you would have to be very delicate with this because, the organization as a whole doesn’t want to look up and say, “Well Joe or Helen are performing very well, they never follow any of the rules, I don’t think there are any reasons for me to adapt to the change.” You know that kind of sentiment is out there. You need to make sure you bring them along. You know there will be a small percentage of the organization that will help to lead change. Identifying those folks early, getting them engaged, getting them bought off on it; whether you are trying to change the culture in your company or trying to change the vision for your sales organization or the strategy for management, any of that change management requires getting buy in early. Getting some folks who are respected by their peers to buy in, folks who are respected by others in the organization to buy in because they will tend to carry this initiative forward.

Kevin Price: Interesting. Very Important. Very good information. Do you have a follow up, Walter?

Walter Rogers: I was going to say that it also does test the communications skills of the sales manager because, you know, one of the things Mavericks do respect is somebody who is fairly persuasive and forthright in their communications style. So, managing a Maverick also means being straight forward with them and they will respect that.

Kevin Price: You really have too. And there again, Mavericks tend to operate with a lot of presumption and that presumption is really built on them being correct and them being right. So, you can suggest all day long and you can imply until the cows come home but, with Mavericks you better just tell them like it is or it often won’t resonate with them; it just fly’s right past them. Your thoughts Paget?

Paget Alves: Well, I think that’s right. I think that applies to most folks in our organizations. I think we have a tendency and one of the things we are trying to train our managers to do is to be more direct to make sure that they are communicating the straight story, doing it in a real time manner because there is nothing like real time communication to help people to understand what you are coaching them about and what kind of behavior might result in greater success. I think with the Mavericks, the key is they have to respect the individuals managing them.

Kevin Price: Yah.

Paget Alves: And, if they have respect for the individuals managing them that tells you two things; one, that person, that manager is incredibly valuable because they are respected by everyone. And two, that manager has effectively been able to lead a diverse organization with top performers and not so good performers because, ultimately, you need someone like that to pull the average up and let all the ships rise with the tide.

Kevin Price: Paget Alves, I tell yah I enjoyed having you on, so much. You bring so much wisdom and information; we will have to look at getting you back on the program. You are with Sprint and obviously making a difference and creating a culture of success there and you mentioned, of course, Walter Rogers’s company, Baker Communications, playing a role in that. I encourage the listener out there who really wants to take their business to a level that Sprint is at and continues to peruse. Contact the folks at Baker Communications, you can do that at bakercommunications.com, check out their website. The phone number their Walter?

Walter Rogers: (713)627-7700

Kevin Price: One more time.

Walter Rogers: (713)627-7700

Kevin Price: Great contribution from both of you gentleman. Thanks so much for being with us.

Paget Alves: Thank you for having us, we appreciate it and look forward to visiting with you again.

Kevin Price: You bet. Fantastic information. I do want to mention, that of course, Walters’s project continues online at our sister website over there at houstonbusinessdaily.com. Basically he is building a book and I am looking forward to that finished product. It is going to be phenomenal book on taking management to creating cultures and really building leaders for the 21st Century in the way businesses have to do in order to be successful. You can see that book in development, you can get it right now for free, essentially as it is being developed over there houstonbusinessdaily.com. You should take advantage of it; it is some of the best writing on that website. Believe me, there is a lot of good writing on that website. The phenomenal nature of houstonbusinessdaily.com is the fact that some of the most original content on the internet. It is found there first, I would say 95% of the time, phenomenal content. Walter, great job as always.

Walter Rogers: Thank you, I appreciate being on the show and look forward to next week.

Kevin Price: We have just a few seconds left. What direction are we going now?

Walter Rogers: We are going to continue to focus on the sales manager and the twelve best practices of sales management so, stay tuned for more of that next week.

Kevin Price: You got to check that out and also don’t forget to check out his website at bakercommunications.com. I am Kevin Price; we are going to wrap up today’s program right here after this on CNN650. Contact Us Phone: 1-713-627-7700 Fax: 1-713-587-2051 Email: service@bakercommunications.com Address: 10101 SW Freeway Suite 630 Houston, Texas 77074, USA $(document).ready(function(){ //When you click on a link with class of poplight and the href starts with a # $('a.poplight[href^=#]').click(function() { var popID = $(this).attr('rel'); //Get Popup Name var popURL = $(this).attr('href'); //Get Popup href to define size //Pull Query & Variables from href URL var query= popURL.split('?'); var dim= query[1].split('&'); var popWidth = dim[0].split('=')[1]; //Gets the first query string value //Fade in the Popup and add close button $('#' + popID).fadeIn().css({ 'width': Number( popWidth ) }).prepend(' '); //Define margin for center alignment (vertical + horizontal) - we add 80 to the height/width to accomodate for the padding + border width defined in the css var popMargTop = ($('#' + popID).height() + 80) / 2; var popMargLeft = ($('#' + popID).width() + 80) / 2; //Apply Margin to Popup $('#' + popID).css({ 'margin-top' : -popMargTop, 'margin-left' : -popMargLeft }); //Fade in Background $('body').append(' '); //Add the fade layer to bottom of the body tag. $('#fade').css({'filter' : 'alpha(opacity=80)'}).fadeIn(); //Fade in the fade layer return false; }); //Close Popups and Fade Layer $('a.close, #fade').live('click', function() { //When clicking on the close or fade layer... $('#fade , .popup_block').fadeOut(function() { $('#fade, a.close').remove(); }); //fade them both out return false; }); }); View our entire archive of podcasts on iTunes here . Integrated Solutions Customer Acquisition Customer Win-Back Customer Reactivation Rapid Lead Response New Product Launch Account Penetration Territory Management Sales Talent Onboarding From Manager to Coach Personal Productivity CRM Adoption Salesforce CRM BaseCamp Industry Solutions High-Tech Financial Media Energy Public Sector Coaching Sales Coaching Service Coaching Training Public Workshops Sales Training Negotiations Training Presentations Training Management Training Customer Service Training Time Management Training CloudCasts™ Performance Tools CloudCoach HomeRun! Rapid Rx Q Delivery Methods Classroom Workshops CloudCasts Coaching in the Cloud About Us Our Leaders Testimonials News & Press Employment Partners Resources Contact Us Baker Communications Inc. © 1996-2012 Phone: 713 627-7700 | Fax: 713 587-2051

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